Carol Kaye Interview
Publié : 12 juin 2005, 19:45
Thanks to Carol Kaye for this beautiful moment
Bruno Chaza
www.brunochaza.com
It’s so interesting to hear musicians discuss their feelings, memories, hopes, projects, motivations (what pushes them forward, what makes them work), their likes and dislikes.
Yes Bruno, I think it's very important to know what about a musician, how they get their careers going, the things they think about. Most will never reveal much tho', it's the nature of the musician I think....they're afraid to say things "with words", things they'd rather say in their music I believe. You have good questions.
What were the critical aspects of your musical development (other musicians, specific books, getting to know a standard, a personal revelation, a certain practice method, etc.)?
I grew up very very poor, my parents divorced and we didn't have much before and so my Dad skipped the state and Mom and I got nothing...so had to work since I was 9 years old, we both worked cleaning apartments, babysitting anything to survive. I'd sing around the apartment and so my Mom, God Bless her saved up pennies and (when I was 13) through a traveling salesman, bought me a cheap steel guitar complete with a few lessons for $10.00 and I found something I could "do that made me feel good". I also stuttered, and was picked on in school by kids in the housing projects for being "smart" in school, I got good grades in spite of the disability..so life wasn't very easy back then, and music made me feel good, plus after 3 mos. free lessons by a guitar teacher soon (age of 14), I was able to make money playing gigs and also teaching...believe me, being able to EAT because I could play music was a very big incentive to play music.
· If I want to go out and buy a CD of yours tomorrow, what do you recommend I listen to?
<that's a tough one to answer, there's many of the studio things I did that yes, I'm proud of (much of what we cut was just surf-rock, good grooves but no not our "favorite music")...probably "Feelin' Alright" by Joe Cocker, "I Don't Need No Doctor" and other cuts by Ray Charles, "The Way We Were" by Barbra Streisand, and lots of the TV show theme music like Mission Impossible, Kojac, Streets Of San Francisco, McCloud, MASH, It Takes A Theif, Ironside, Room 222, the first Bill Cosby TV show (approx. 1969-1970), and some of the hits like with Andy Williams, Lou Rawls, some of the Beach Boys things I liked, Mel Torme things, OC Smith, "The In Crowd" hit with Dobie Gray, there's many recordings I particularly like, can't say a "favorite" no. Being a jazz musician, I never listen to that stuff anymore except on rare occasion. Once you cut it all, you forget it and go on and later on, you're able to play the music you only want to play.
· Are there still musicians that you listen to who give you strength and energy? Could you talk about that?
I was originally a jazz musician (like most of the studio musicians) and so yes, that music always inspires me, especially listening to the late great Sonny Stitt. I love some classical music too.
· Could you tell us something about your recent projets ?
I'm working on a film project, a jazz tutor that will soon be out on DVD. I have an album project (on bass) coming up with a big star, with music I particularly like but can't reveal the name of the singer yet (they told me not to just yet), she's a great singer, and I look forward to it all. I only work occasionally and only on record dates or film calls I like to do. There's not the work at all anymore in the Hollywood studios there once was for anyone....and I've been out playing some jazz guitar also (again, I was originally a jazz guitarist in the 1950s). Also my Documentary "First Lady Of Bass" has been shown in parts of Europe 3x and about to be shown in Canada...and elsewhere. There's more about to happen which I cannot reveal yet, it's an exciting year so far.
· What basses do you play ?
In the studios and live, I ONLY use the great Ibanez SRX700...as usual, I only have 2 basses. Studio musicians here are not into collecting, and you only have what you need, plus a spare. I know elsewhere they have a multitude of basses, but I get versatile sounds from one bass, like we've always done out here and see no need to get an arsenal of basses...I work enough as it is. The Ibanez I feel completely comfortable with since they added more meat to their necks...even with my small hands I need meat to the hand won't cramp while playing and the Ibanez is quality through and through and now with a perfect neck, it's terrific. I will never change the pickups either, (I only use the neck pickup)...the generic pickups are great, natural-sounding, and get the Fender sounds I want and also the great jazz sounds I love. With the great Thomastik Jazz Flats, I get great sounds (also with my muting and picking technique close to the end of the neck with a flat wrist).
· Do you have a favorite one or do you practise different instruments according to styles and functions ?
I use the Ibanez slab-body guitar with special pickup, the Humbucker by Seymour Duncan (again the neck pickup ONLY for fine thick bassy jazz sounds), the Ibanez I use is the RG321 and with the George Benson flatwound jazz strings, the Seymour Duncan pickup, the great Ibanez guitar that is considered to be a "rock" guitar, because of its quality, it becomes a GREAT jazz guitar. I've played in clubs, playing some jazz soloing on it, and guitarists would walk in with their $5,000 acoustic-elec. guitars and their mouths would drop ....because....they could NOT get as good of a jazz sound as I could with a $350.00 guitar set up right for fine jazz. The sounds are phenomenal. Ibanez is the ONLY company I love absolutely, they listen to musicians and have integrity to put out quality instruments right off the line, quality that lasts. Their bass pickups are IT for fine versatile bass sounds, I don't need anything but their Ibanez generic pickups in the bass...but for jazz, yes I need the Duncan pickup which they use by the way in many of their acoustic-elec. guitars. Excellent!
· Is your student’s musical experiment only with Jazz ?
I only really teach Jazz now, I used to teach everything and occasionally I'll make an exception. I've taught music (except for the very busy 1960s studio years) since 1949...and so I don't have the patience I once had in teaching..which is why I only teach Jazz, the only music of my choice to play (outside of studio work that is also of my choosing). I teach only professional musicians and some fly in from Europe for lessons, and it's nice to see dedication to learn the right jazz, not the dumb note-scale stuff (you can't play fine jazz soloing with note-scales)....they all need the chordal pattern system I teach...I played jazz with the finest jazz legends around LA, especially in the black nightclubs in the 1950s and I teach the way everyone played fine jazz improv back then. You can't learn to play fine jazz with the terrible ear-killing note-scales commonly taught now by the ex-rocker musicians...and they aren't in contact with the fine older jazz musicians to have the experience to teach...but slowly the dedicated ones are learning chordal progressions and sub-chords to teach jazz with, buying my tutors on it too -- sometimes you run across an older jazz musician teaching here and there. It's the same theory: chordal.
I've trained many in the past in how to create soul playing, boogaloo funky lines, pop-rock-blues-motown types of lines yes...there's an exclusive theory on that, something not generally known to the public, about the rhythmic uses of certain notes...but everyone gets it very well with all the lines in my many books.
· Do you feel you have made yours keys in your musical journey, a special way to play a chord or chord’s groups ? Shortly speaking what were your ways to make technique fade away from freedom of playing ?
It's important to get the proper education to learn how to play, it's a process that takes time and I've seen many a former student go on to become famous for their quality playing but it takes time. You learn, practice, jam with others, do a few gigs, learn more, jam more, do more gigs, and slowly you get the experience you need for most anything.
Learning jazz also makes the process all work well...as it's the most complex and creative style to learn and then you can play any style you want to very well with the right attitude of being a "fine professional musician, no matter the style of music". It's called being reliable, not doing drugs nor too much drinking either. None of our group of 1960s studio musicians did drugs nor had a drinking problem. We come from a time when we all thought doing drugs was STUPID (and still think that)...we could invent and cut a hit album in 6 hours no problem.
And yes, most of us were wellschooled in chords, you had to be to play Standards, with all the chords there...that helps to develop your ear...and we all had experience with playing either jazz and/or in big bands too, years of experience before ever doing studio work...the music education of the 1940s and 1950s was chordally which is missing today. And so many drugs around, who are they trying to impress with drugs?! It's all so stupid and plus, a person can never learn to play music while on drugs...to work with someone on drugs, you have to "carry them"....they rush on cocaine and drag on pot...etc. and then drag you down with *their" conning lifestyle too if you ever be friendly to them - uh-uh, leave the druggies alone in their own stupidness and go and do your music with a clear head, it's great that way and happy.
I never "planned" on anything, just things happened and it was always about supporting my growing family. I simply married the wrong men (a drunk, a businessman who hurt my earlier children, and another drunk/idiot) so I had to raise my 3 children alone...and to do that I had work in the studios and was grateful for the work and especially playing bass when someone didn't show up at Capitol Records....I got to play, invent what I wanted to invent on bass and quickly became #1 call on bass in 1963-64 then....it was easier to play rock on bass, then on guitar. I had been playing 12-string guitar, all kinds of different guitar parts on hit records since 1957 and didn't enjoy turning my jazz guitar into a rock idiom at all....but playing bass made it easier and sort of fun here and there too, playing my own invented lines. I never wanted to do studio work, I always just wanted to play live jazz but the money was in studio work and so everyone who played well did studio work and it was wonderful to work with all of them, all good guys, great talents. I lived in a time when you were lucky to eat, and didn't have the luxury of choices, but it all worked out for the best - taking care of your children is top priority. Jazz simply didn't pay anyone well enough to raise a family on.
· Could you describe a typical week in your life (your interactions with other musicians, your courses, rehearsals, practice)?
Once you play in the studios, say 12-14-16 hours a day, what time is there to "practice"? You're always playing...you come to a certain high level of playing (and studio work was not jazz...it was a business), and you don't practice. You need to practice yes, if you're playing jazz or other complex music but in recording, none of us played anywhere near our former level of jazz musicianship, you don't need to "practice" at all and in fact, when I'd finally get home...I'd tell the kids, "Shut off the radio, I can't stand to hear another note of music" you're playing so much music 6-7 days a week year and year out just recording you quickly get burned out of hearing any kind of music. I'm probably one of the very few of the 100s of us studio musicians that listens to any kind of music today. Usually you walk into someone's house, it's dead quiet....it's hard for the public to understand this but they didn't have to play music 12 hours a day for years every day of the week!
A usual day in the 1960s early 1970s was: get up 7AM quickly eat something, take a shower and go the movie studio to cut a film score all day long 8 to 5PM. Go home for quick bite to eat and then start record date at 8PM to 11PM (or later usually) sometimes you don't get home until 1AM as it goes in to overtime. And yes, you will take a commercial you have to record from 6 to 7PM so there's no ptime to go home to dinner, you grab a quick bite and it's on to the 8PM call...this on a daily basis, and sometimes I'd hire a "stand-by" if any one of those dates went overtime so the standby could be at the next date to play until I got there 10-15 mintes late.
You could NEVER be late for the date, as Union rules were that if and when it went into overtime, you would pay for all the overtime which amounted to 1,000s of dollars then..you could NEVER be late. I had a cartage company carry around 1 of my 4 amps to set up at the studio, I'd run in with my bass, my amp would be turned on and I'd plug into and quickly tune up and ready to play, pencil in hand for writing down any licks I'd think of to play or for any changes in any music. In the early 1960s, we all had to do our own head arrangements, sometimes writing out our own chord charts as some singer would play guitar or piano and sing....then slowly arrangers started writing chord charts and a few lines but all the record companies and producers relied heavily on our group of 50-60 studio musicians (called the "clique") for our own ideas to make the arrangements sound better - this all started to be more music to read about 1965-66...but they still needed us to add our own lines over that. It was always easy for us experience mostly jazz musicians to invent lines, we did that every night playing jazz, always inventing knowing what made the music sound good, putting frameworks around the sometimes just so-so singers and belive me, those tunes as a rule were not all that great back then -- the framework we created made the singer sound good, made the tune sound good.
Plus we all had excellent engineers in those times...engineers who all walked in the studio to listen to our sounds (you learn how to mute to get excellent sounds in studio work, that also works playing live too) and faithfully reproduced the very sounds we got in the room...such was the integrity of the engineers back then...they didn't use (or have to use) any EQ or compression etc. That's why that music sounds so potent.
Did I get tired? Yes, all of us lived on 5-6 hours sleep most of the time for years in the heavy-duty studio work and would be on edge from drinking all the coffee to stay awake with too. Several producers (for no reason but experimenting in the booth) would do 25-30 or more takes...it wasn't because of musicians, it was because of THEM trying to learn the producing as they went along...
musicians could get a hit take in 1-2 takes but we'd sit and wait for this and that, hence all the cigarettes and coffee drinking to stay away...and everyone would get punch and then the humor 1-line funny things were said...you'd sit there laughing on the inside at all the nutty things we'd say in the studio waiting to play HARD on a take..you always played 3-4 times harder in the studio than ever live....we were afraid the business would collapse and we'd be out of work next year...so we took "every date" we could and invented and played HARD to keep the business going.
We knew our names were NOT getting on the album covers...our group was cutting everyone's hit records but with no credits and trade magazine lying about "who played on the records"..it was important to have the fantasy that those cute guys in the group played on their own recordings...NO they didn't! It was all a big LIE and so we all knew that, and knew to keep going as it would all fail someday if the truth got out about us cutting ALL the hits for all the groups. It finally did fail in the 1970s when the younger musicians used drugs, it took months to cut an album and then the synthesizer took over, but most of us were playing just film scores and TV shows by that time, there were no drugs there.
· What is your preferred ensemble – the trio or the quartet? Do you think a certain ensemble works best or does it depend on your mood?
No preference...if the musicians are good, you can easily plan with any amount of musicians and it'll be great.
· Along the same line, do you have a favorite tempo? What keys do you like to play in?
No preference. Standards which is where Jazz was born, are usually written in flat keys to accommodate the horns and reeds which need flat keys.
· Do you consider the bass as a rhythm instrument or do you also find appeal in freeform soloing and chord-playing?
I don't use bass in any way but being the foundation instrument of the band or combo. I know others sometimes (not really the top pro's tho' - they'll solo in jazz yes, but in a combo setting) use it a solo instrument, that's fine...whatever.
· Where do you think Coltrane’s experiment with two basses in one band could lead music?
Two basses have forever been used in things...it was common in early recordings to use both acoustic and elec. bass in recordings before I came along and played with a pick in 1963 and accidently took the place of 2 basses on most of the recording dates..I could get the sounds of both basses on elec. bass.
About 2-bass parts, I had some interesting things to play with Ray Brown on some Quincy Jones film scores and so we cut some sides featuring 2 basses playing soulful type of stuff...sounded good, those sides are now on "Carol Kaye: Bass" and for awhile was pirated as "picking up on the E string" (I don't get one penny from that stolen recording so please don't buy it, it's a pirate recording...you can get the right sounds, better sounds on my "Carol Kaye: Bass" CD)...has those sides with Ray Brown on it, interesting funky music. I don't have any opinion on Coltrane's use of 2 basses.
· What advice would you give to young musicians reading this?
Learn your chordal notes, study and practice 1 hour a day (only 2 hours a day if it's jazz, NO MORE...the brain simply doesn't work past 2 hours and don't do thing by rote) ..with the right materials to study you learn a LOT and do a LOT with 1 hour a day practice, it's the quality of practice, not especially the quantity of practice that gets you there. Don't use drugs...why do that? Only losers use drugs and crawl into their own little fantasy world...enjoy playing music with good musicians, don't be around druggies, leave them alone in their game world...go for the music, play great and things happen, opportunities always present themselves if you prepare for it. Have integrity to NOT be late to work, always answer the phone, be responsible and you will be successful it's a guarantee if you practice, become a good experienced musician.
· Do you think there are any solutions to the crisis in the recording industry, the struggle of those who try to make a living as musicians, and the digitalization of music?
First of all, I applaud the digital world...there's so much you can do with it, it's a fine technology if used right. It's just all shifting around as to where the work is these days. I see a ton of work that private bands are doing playing Standards, enjoying good musicianship, excellent respect, and good money, it's in the private sector not especially in the nightclubs these days. And opportunity because of the web has shifted more to the public sector too...I think there's more opportunity than ever you have to promote your own products, play colleges, sell your own CDs, and that's where it's at I believe. The old days are long-gone and yes there's still an industry but not much of one...it's more important to better your musicianship, better your personality by having the right attitude (no drugs!), and getting along, helping others like night-club owners make money so you can make money....
stop thinking of "being a star"! That's a carefuly crafted image done for BUSINESS...it's NOT REAL..so stop thinking it's real and get down to real business of playing good for the money...it's like the ads of people advertising their "get rich quick" things...if you're really rich you don't have those schemes...it's all for business that phony "star" trip....stay away from people who are "trying to be stars" too...they're not in their right minds. The "real stars" are very low-key and worked themselves UP by being good.
· Do you think the internet can provide a forum for a musical counter-culture or open new possilbities for musicians, or do you think the web will alienate us even more?
I have no idea but it's a good tool to sell your CDs if you've got a little following of your live gigs as a band to start with.
· Without getting into a deeply philosophical debate, do you think musicians have something to say about the world’s troubles: global warming, conflicts, economic struggles?
I'd says yes. I applaud Sting's dedication to our environment, we're more in-tune with the world on a very deep level because of our music playing and feeling...it's a very deep unspoken level of communication and "we're in touch" I do believe ...we feel the pains of the animals and birds, and the suffering...and it's good that musicians do as much as they can to help.
Once we trash this world, we all can't pick up and go live on Mars...it's our home and to treat our home and the helpless animals birds and fish the way we're treating them, the fuana, the trees, and formerly clean water this way is a crime against God...we were given life on this planet and we should protect it from the evils especially against the evils of the oil industry! And other energies, sure the basis of OUR economies, what a crime, that eat up and destroy our world. THis is a problem our children are faced with very soon when they grow up...I have faith in people being good and solving these huge issues, but it looks pretty bad today doesn't it?!
· Please feel free to add whatever questions you think I should have asked.
Because of the looming world-wide crisis of our planet's natural resources being under attack so much, it should be the responsibility of ALL musicians to stop using drugs,get a clear head and stop hiding from it all....we CAN make a difference. Straighten up and take pride in the body and mind God gave you, stop trying to destroy it...don't pamper yourself, go out and play good music, express your real feelings in the music and know your life has a real purpose, a useful purpose to contribute something of your God-given talents to make the world a better place...once you concentrate on something bigger than yourself, you find purpose and happiness in your endeavors. And you help make the world a better place too. We always knew in the studio work, if we played good, the money would always come and it did...go with that.
Carol Kaye
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Bruno Chaza
www.brunochaza.com
It’s so interesting to hear musicians discuss their feelings, memories, hopes, projects, motivations (what pushes them forward, what makes them work), their likes and dislikes.
Yes Bruno, I think it's very important to know what about a musician, how they get their careers going, the things they think about. Most will never reveal much tho', it's the nature of the musician I think....they're afraid to say things "with words", things they'd rather say in their music I believe. You have good questions.
What were the critical aspects of your musical development (other musicians, specific books, getting to know a standard, a personal revelation, a certain practice method, etc.)?
I grew up very very poor, my parents divorced and we didn't have much before and so my Dad skipped the state and Mom and I got nothing...so had to work since I was 9 years old, we both worked cleaning apartments, babysitting anything to survive. I'd sing around the apartment and so my Mom, God Bless her saved up pennies and (when I was 13) through a traveling salesman, bought me a cheap steel guitar complete with a few lessons for $10.00 and I found something I could "do that made me feel good". I also stuttered, and was picked on in school by kids in the housing projects for being "smart" in school, I got good grades in spite of the disability..so life wasn't very easy back then, and music made me feel good, plus after 3 mos. free lessons by a guitar teacher soon (age of 14), I was able to make money playing gigs and also teaching...believe me, being able to EAT because I could play music was a very big incentive to play music.
· If I want to go out and buy a CD of yours tomorrow, what do you recommend I listen to?
<that's a tough one to answer, there's many of the studio things I did that yes, I'm proud of (much of what we cut was just surf-rock, good grooves but no not our "favorite music")...probably "Feelin' Alright" by Joe Cocker, "I Don't Need No Doctor" and other cuts by Ray Charles, "The Way We Were" by Barbra Streisand, and lots of the TV show theme music like Mission Impossible, Kojac, Streets Of San Francisco, McCloud, MASH, It Takes A Theif, Ironside, Room 222, the first Bill Cosby TV show (approx. 1969-1970), and some of the hits like with Andy Williams, Lou Rawls, some of the Beach Boys things I liked, Mel Torme things, OC Smith, "The In Crowd" hit with Dobie Gray, there's many recordings I particularly like, can't say a "favorite" no. Being a jazz musician, I never listen to that stuff anymore except on rare occasion. Once you cut it all, you forget it and go on and later on, you're able to play the music you only want to play.
· Are there still musicians that you listen to who give you strength and energy? Could you talk about that?
I was originally a jazz musician (like most of the studio musicians) and so yes, that music always inspires me, especially listening to the late great Sonny Stitt. I love some classical music too.
· Could you tell us something about your recent projets ?
I'm working on a film project, a jazz tutor that will soon be out on DVD. I have an album project (on bass) coming up with a big star, with music I particularly like but can't reveal the name of the singer yet (they told me not to just yet), she's a great singer, and I look forward to it all. I only work occasionally and only on record dates or film calls I like to do. There's not the work at all anymore in the Hollywood studios there once was for anyone....and I've been out playing some jazz guitar also (again, I was originally a jazz guitarist in the 1950s). Also my Documentary "First Lady Of Bass" has been shown in parts of Europe 3x and about to be shown in Canada...and elsewhere. There's more about to happen which I cannot reveal yet, it's an exciting year so far.
· What basses do you play ?
In the studios and live, I ONLY use the great Ibanez SRX700...as usual, I only have 2 basses. Studio musicians here are not into collecting, and you only have what you need, plus a spare. I know elsewhere they have a multitude of basses, but I get versatile sounds from one bass, like we've always done out here and see no need to get an arsenal of basses...I work enough as it is. The Ibanez I feel completely comfortable with since they added more meat to their necks...even with my small hands I need meat to the hand won't cramp while playing and the Ibanez is quality through and through and now with a perfect neck, it's terrific. I will never change the pickups either, (I only use the neck pickup)...the generic pickups are great, natural-sounding, and get the Fender sounds I want and also the great jazz sounds I love. With the great Thomastik Jazz Flats, I get great sounds (also with my muting and picking technique close to the end of the neck with a flat wrist).
· Do you have a favorite one or do you practise different instruments according to styles and functions ?
I use the Ibanez slab-body guitar with special pickup, the Humbucker by Seymour Duncan (again the neck pickup ONLY for fine thick bassy jazz sounds), the Ibanez I use is the RG321 and with the George Benson flatwound jazz strings, the Seymour Duncan pickup, the great Ibanez guitar that is considered to be a "rock" guitar, because of its quality, it becomes a GREAT jazz guitar. I've played in clubs, playing some jazz soloing on it, and guitarists would walk in with their $5,000 acoustic-elec. guitars and their mouths would drop ....because....they could NOT get as good of a jazz sound as I could with a $350.00 guitar set up right for fine jazz. The sounds are phenomenal. Ibanez is the ONLY company I love absolutely, they listen to musicians and have integrity to put out quality instruments right off the line, quality that lasts. Their bass pickups are IT for fine versatile bass sounds, I don't need anything but their Ibanez generic pickups in the bass...but for jazz, yes I need the Duncan pickup which they use by the way in many of their acoustic-elec. guitars. Excellent!
· Is your student’s musical experiment only with Jazz ?
I only really teach Jazz now, I used to teach everything and occasionally I'll make an exception. I've taught music (except for the very busy 1960s studio years) since 1949...and so I don't have the patience I once had in teaching..which is why I only teach Jazz, the only music of my choice to play (outside of studio work that is also of my choosing). I teach only professional musicians and some fly in from Europe for lessons, and it's nice to see dedication to learn the right jazz, not the dumb note-scale stuff (you can't play fine jazz soloing with note-scales)....they all need the chordal pattern system I teach...I played jazz with the finest jazz legends around LA, especially in the black nightclubs in the 1950s and I teach the way everyone played fine jazz improv back then. You can't learn to play fine jazz with the terrible ear-killing note-scales commonly taught now by the ex-rocker musicians...and they aren't in contact with the fine older jazz musicians to have the experience to teach...but slowly the dedicated ones are learning chordal progressions and sub-chords to teach jazz with, buying my tutors on it too -- sometimes you run across an older jazz musician teaching here and there. It's the same theory: chordal.
I've trained many in the past in how to create soul playing, boogaloo funky lines, pop-rock-blues-motown types of lines yes...there's an exclusive theory on that, something not generally known to the public, about the rhythmic uses of certain notes...but everyone gets it very well with all the lines in my many books.
· Do you feel you have made yours keys in your musical journey, a special way to play a chord or chord’s groups ? Shortly speaking what were your ways to make technique fade away from freedom of playing ?
It's important to get the proper education to learn how to play, it's a process that takes time and I've seen many a former student go on to become famous for their quality playing but it takes time. You learn, practice, jam with others, do a few gigs, learn more, jam more, do more gigs, and slowly you get the experience you need for most anything.
Learning jazz also makes the process all work well...as it's the most complex and creative style to learn and then you can play any style you want to very well with the right attitude of being a "fine professional musician, no matter the style of music". It's called being reliable, not doing drugs nor too much drinking either. None of our group of 1960s studio musicians did drugs nor had a drinking problem. We come from a time when we all thought doing drugs was STUPID (and still think that)...we could invent and cut a hit album in 6 hours no problem.
And yes, most of us were wellschooled in chords, you had to be to play Standards, with all the chords there...that helps to develop your ear...and we all had experience with playing either jazz and/or in big bands too, years of experience before ever doing studio work...the music education of the 1940s and 1950s was chordally which is missing today. And so many drugs around, who are they trying to impress with drugs?! It's all so stupid and plus, a person can never learn to play music while on drugs...to work with someone on drugs, you have to "carry them"....they rush on cocaine and drag on pot...etc. and then drag you down with *their" conning lifestyle too if you ever be friendly to them - uh-uh, leave the druggies alone in their own stupidness and go and do your music with a clear head, it's great that way and happy.
I never "planned" on anything, just things happened and it was always about supporting my growing family. I simply married the wrong men (a drunk, a businessman who hurt my earlier children, and another drunk/idiot) so I had to raise my 3 children alone...and to do that I had work in the studios and was grateful for the work and especially playing bass when someone didn't show up at Capitol Records....I got to play, invent what I wanted to invent on bass and quickly became #1 call on bass in 1963-64 then....it was easier to play rock on bass, then on guitar. I had been playing 12-string guitar, all kinds of different guitar parts on hit records since 1957 and didn't enjoy turning my jazz guitar into a rock idiom at all....but playing bass made it easier and sort of fun here and there too, playing my own invented lines. I never wanted to do studio work, I always just wanted to play live jazz but the money was in studio work and so everyone who played well did studio work and it was wonderful to work with all of them, all good guys, great talents. I lived in a time when you were lucky to eat, and didn't have the luxury of choices, but it all worked out for the best - taking care of your children is top priority. Jazz simply didn't pay anyone well enough to raise a family on.
· Could you describe a typical week in your life (your interactions with other musicians, your courses, rehearsals, practice)?
Once you play in the studios, say 12-14-16 hours a day, what time is there to "practice"? You're always playing...you come to a certain high level of playing (and studio work was not jazz...it was a business), and you don't practice. You need to practice yes, if you're playing jazz or other complex music but in recording, none of us played anywhere near our former level of jazz musicianship, you don't need to "practice" at all and in fact, when I'd finally get home...I'd tell the kids, "Shut off the radio, I can't stand to hear another note of music" you're playing so much music 6-7 days a week year and year out just recording you quickly get burned out of hearing any kind of music. I'm probably one of the very few of the 100s of us studio musicians that listens to any kind of music today. Usually you walk into someone's house, it's dead quiet....it's hard for the public to understand this but they didn't have to play music 12 hours a day for years every day of the week!
A usual day in the 1960s early 1970s was: get up 7AM quickly eat something, take a shower and go the movie studio to cut a film score all day long 8 to 5PM. Go home for quick bite to eat and then start record date at 8PM to 11PM (or later usually) sometimes you don't get home until 1AM as it goes in to overtime. And yes, you will take a commercial you have to record from 6 to 7PM so there's no ptime to go home to dinner, you grab a quick bite and it's on to the 8PM call...this on a daily basis, and sometimes I'd hire a "stand-by" if any one of those dates went overtime so the standby could be at the next date to play until I got there 10-15 mintes late.
You could NEVER be late for the date, as Union rules were that if and when it went into overtime, you would pay for all the overtime which amounted to 1,000s of dollars then..you could NEVER be late. I had a cartage company carry around 1 of my 4 amps to set up at the studio, I'd run in with my bass, my amp would be turned on and I'd plug into and quickly tune up and ready to play, pencil in hand for writing down any licks I'd think of to play or for any changes in any music. In the early 1960s, we all had to do our own head arrangements, sometimes writing out our own chord charts as some singer would play guitar or piano and sing....then slowly arrangers started writing chord charts and a few lines but all the record companies and producers relied heavily on our group of 50-60 studio musicians (called the "clique") for our own ideas to make the arrangements sound better - this all started to be more music to read about 1965-66...but they still needed us to add our own lines over that. It was always easy for us experience mostly jazz musicians to invent lines, we did that every night playing jazz, always inventing knowing what made the music sound good, putting frameworks around the sometimes just so-so singers and belive me, those tunes as a rule were not all that great back then -- the framework we created made the singer sound good, made the tune sound good.
Plus we all had excellent engineers in those times...engineers who all walked in the studio to listen to our sounds (you learn how to mute to get excellent sounds in studio work, that also works playing live too) and faithfully reproduced the very sounds we got in the room...such was the integrity of the engineers back then...they didn't use (or have to use) any EQ or compression etc. That's why that music sounds so potent.
Did I get tired? Yes, all of us lived on 5-6 hours sleep most of the time for years in the heavy-duty studio work and would be on edge from drinking all the coffee to stay awake with too. Several producers (for no reason but experimenting in the booth) would do 25-30 or more takes...it wasn't because of musicians, it was because of THEM trying to learn the producing as they went along...
musicians could get a hit take in 1-2 takes but we'd sit and wait for this and that, hence all the cigarettes and coffee drinking to stay away...and everyone would get punch and then the humor 1-line funny things were said...you'd sit there laughing on the inside at all the nutty things we'd say in the studio waiting to play HARD on a take..you always played 3-4 times harder in the studio than ever live....we were afraid the business would collapse and we'd be out of work next year...so we took "every date" we could and invented and played HARD to keep the business going.
We knew our names were NOT getting on the album covers...our group was cutting everyone's hit records but with no credits and trade magazine lying about "who played on the records"..it was important to have the fantasy that those cute guys in the group played on their own recordings...NO they didn't! It was all a big LIE and so we all knew that, and knew to keep going as it would all fail someday if the truth got out about us cutting ALL the hits for all the groups. It finally did fail in the 1970s when the younger musicians used drugs, it took months to cut an album and then the synthesizer took over, but most of us were playing just film scores and TV shows by that time, there were no drugs there.
· What is your preferred ensemble – the trio or the quartet? Do you think a certain ensemble works best or does it depend on your mood?
No preference...if the musicians are good, you can easily plan with any amount of musicians and it'll be great.
· Along the same line, do you have a favorite tempo? What keys do you like to play in?
No preference. Standards which is where Jazz was born, are usually written in flat keys to accommodate the horns and reeds which need flat keys.
· Do you consider the bass as a rhythm instrument or do you also find appeal in freeform soloing and chord-playing?
I don't use bass in any way but being the foundation instrument of the band or combo. I know others sometimes (not really the top pro's tho' - they'll solo in jazz yes, but in a combo setting) use it a solo instrument, that's fine...whatever.
· Where do you think Coltrane’s experiment with two basses in one band could lead music?
Two basses have forever been used in things...it was common in early recordings to use both acoustic and elec. bass in recordings before I came along and played with a pick in 1963 and accidently took the place of 2 basses on most of the recording dates..I could get the sounds of both basses on elec. bass.
About 2-bass parts, I had some interesting things to play with Ray Brown on some Quincy Jones film scores and so we cut some sides featuring 2 basses playing soulful type of stuff...sounded good, those sides are now on "Carol Kaye: Bass" and for awhile was pirated as "picking up on the E string" (I don't get one penny from that stolen recording so please don't buy it, it's a pirate recording...you can get the right sounds, better sounds on my "Carol Kaye: Bass" CD)...has those sides with Ray Brown on it, interesting funky music. I don't have any opinion on Coltrane's use of 2 basses.
· What advice would you give to young musicians reading this?
Learn your chordal notes, study and practice 1 hour a day (only 2 hours a day if it's jazz, NO MORE...the brain simply doesn't work past 2 hours and don't do thing by rote) ..with the right materials to study you learn a LOT and do a LOT with 1 hour a day practice, it's the quality of practice, not especially the quantity of practice that gets you there. Don't use drugs...why do that? Only losers use drugs and crawl into their own little fantasy world...enjoy playing music with good musicians, don't be around druggies, leave them alone in their game world...go for the music, play great and things happen, opportunities always present themselves if you prepare for it. Have integrity to NOT be late to work, always answer the phone, be responsible and you will be successful it's a guarantee if you practice, become a good experienced musician.
· Do you think there are any solutions to the crisis in the recording industry, the struggle of those who try to make a living as musicians, and the digitalization of music?
First of all, I applaud the digital world...there's so much you can do with it, it's a fine technology if used right. It's just all shifting around as to where the work is these days. I see a ton of work that private bands are doing playing Standards, enjoying good musicianship, excellent respect, and good money, it's in the private sector not especially in the nightclubs these days. And opportunity because of the web has shifted more to the public sector too...I think there's more opportunity than ever you have to promote your own products, play colleges, sell your own CDs, and that's where it's at I believe. The old days are long-gone and yes there's still an industry but not much of one...it's more important to better your musicianship, better your personality by having the right attitude (no drugs!), and getting along, helping others like night-club owners make money so you can make money....
stop thinking of "being a star"! That's a carefuly crafted image done for BUSINESS...it's NOT REAL..so stop thinking it's real and get down to real business of playing good for the money...it's like the ads of people advertising their "get rich quick" things...if you're really rich you don't have those schemes...it's all for business that phony "star" trip....stay away from people who are "trying to be stars" too...they're not in their right minds. The "real stars" are very low-key and worked themselves UP by being good.
· Do you think the internet can provide a forum for a musical counter-culture or open new possilbities for musicians, or do you think the web will alienate us even more?
I have no idea but it's a good tool to sell your CDs if you've got a little following of your live gigs as a band to start with.
· Without getting into a deeply philosophical debate, do you think musicians have something to say about the world’s troubles: global warming, conflicts, economic struggles?
I'd says yes. I applaud Sting's dedication to our environment, we're more in-tune with the world on a very deep level because of our music playing and feeling...it's a very deep unspoken level of communication and "we're in touch" I do believe ...we feel the pains of the animals and birds, and the suffering...and it's good that musicians do as much as they can to help.
Once we trash this world, we all can't pick up and go live on Mars...it's our home and to treat our home and the helpless animals birds and fish the way we're treating them, the fuana, the trees, and formerly clean water this way is a crime against God...we were given life on this planet and we should protect it from the evils especially against the evils of the oil industry! And other energies, sure the basis of OUR economies, what a crime, that eat up and destroy our world. THis is a problem our children are faced with very soon when they grow up...I have faith in people being good and solving these huge issues, but it looks pretty bad today doesn't it?!
· Please feel free to add whatever questions you think I should have asked.
Because of the looming world-wide crisis of our planet's natural resources being under attack so much, it should be the responsibility of ALL musicians to stop using drugs,get a clear head and stop hiding from it all....we CAN make a difference. Straighten up and take pride in the body and mind God gave you, stop trying to destroy it...don't pamper yourself, go out and play good music, express your real feelings in the music and know your life has a real purpose, a useful purpose to contribute something of your God-given talents to make the world a better place...once you concentrate on something bigger than yourself, you find purpose and happiness in your endeavors. And you help make the world a better place too. We always knew in the studio work, if we played good, the money would always come and it did...go with that.
Carol Kaye
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